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Japanese Phonetics Episode 37—LIVE (Updated with native recordings!)

🕑 Added 2018-03-04 10:00:59 +0000 UTC

Comments

Enoch

I vaguely remember at some point in the series "To Your Eternity" when the main character was learning to speak, the girl taught him ありがとう as あ・り・が・と・う distinguishing each sound. If I remember correctly, the う was pronounced distinctly as う. Is ありがとう another exception in slower speech, or is there something else going on here? Thanks!

Dogen

Hi, Sebastian. JP here, Dōgen's business partner. I'm helping manage the messages here on Patreon. This is articulated separately, as you can hear in the entries on Forvo (https://ja.forvo.com/word/おうち_(お家)/#ja).

Vetle Selbæk Pedersen

According to my professor writing おお for a long "o" sound only happens in words of japanese origin and this is due to phonological change from おを-> おお, or おほ-> おお. That is how the words were pronounced in older forms of japanese, so 大きい would have been pronounced closer to おほきい, and 十日 as とをか. This affects only a small number of words, only about 20 or so words, so the easy step is to just memorize these and otherwise just write long "o" as おう

Sebastian Santacruz

hi dogen, what happens when the お is used as a prefix as in お家 (おうち)? i think both are completely articulated, is it like that?

Dogen

Hi Matt. My main field is phonetics, so I'm not entirely sure about this one, but I believe the spelling and the kanji are simply intrinsically linked. That is to say, 十 is とお, rather than とう, while 東 is とう, rather than とお. This, in my understanding is simply determined by each word's origin and history, so I unfortunately can't give any more information on this. And yes, it is my understanding that the 大 in 大阪 and 大きい are both pronounced as おー. Cheers.

Matt

Thanks for your reply. Sorry, I should have asked more precisely because my question is about why for example おおさか (大阪) or おおきい (大きい) is spelled with おお instead of おう. When I started learning Japanese, I struggled a lot because I wasn't sure it makes any difference in terms of pitch or vowel articulation. From the pronunciation POV, both おおさか and おおきい are pronounced as おー I believe. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Dogen

Hi Matt. They are identical in some circumstances, and different in others. I explain when おう is pronounced as おお, and when it is pronounced as おう in the above video from 4:48. Cheers!

Matt

Hi Dogen, this is a very interesting topic! Do you have any thoughts on おう and おお? In terms of pronunciation, are they identical? Thanks!

Dogen

Hi Jason! Yes, this is indeed true—the う in 思う is articulated as an う, rather than an elongated お. That said, there are certainly times when native speakers say the word quickly and drop the う entirely, as in おも. Hope this helps, cheers!

Jason Crouse

Hi Dogen! You've solved a mystery for me. I assume that 思う also follows the rule like the other example verbs in this video. I noticed the articulation of the う in a song years ago and spent a long time thinking it was a weird mistake or something. Thank you for bringing me clarity!

Dogen

Oh shoot, thanks for the heads up, Alex. Will try to fix this very soon!

Alex Rogers

You have an error in the captions here <a href="https://youtu.be/NJrOjpg3TLs?t=1m7s" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/NJrOjpg3TLs?t=1m7s</a> when you say "It's not [aʊ] but [a] + [o]". It should be [aʊ], not [oʊ]. Great series, man!

Dogen

Yes, you should! ^^

Thorn

So I should be pronouncing the voltional of 誘う　さそ＋おー ? :D

Dogen

It's my pleasure, Nicholas! Thank you for your support!

N

Dogen, this is awesome stuff man. I really appreciate it, thanks!

Dogen

Thanks for the catch, Sascha. Uploading a new version right now—should be fixed within the hour. With regards to the vowel at 6:30, this is most likely me overcompensating for the lack of rounding in Japanese. う, as you're most likely aware, is compressed in Japanese; I may have 'over-compressed' the sound just a bit as I'm very conscious about not rounding due to the high number of native speakers who use this series. My personal analysis! Thanks again for the 指摘 and good luck with your studies!

Dogen

Hey Filip! Great question. Yes, I do think this is intentional on the part of the woman. If you look at the waveform for the clip, you can see that her utterance is longer than the man's. Furthermore, I don't have too much context to work with, but it sounds like the woman is clarifying, which usually results in more deliberate speech. This would coincide with the 'articulated in slower, more deliberate or careful speech' idea. Hope this helps! Great question!

Filip Kostka

Another useful video, another set of mysteries clarified. Thank you. I've been recording myself along with audio from the Shadowing book (<a href="https://shop.whiterabbitjapan.com/products/shadowing-lets-speak-japanese-beginner-intermediate" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://shop.whiterabbitjapan.com/products/shadowing-lets-speak-japanese-beginner-intermediate</a>¨¨) and in the first lesson, there's this "dialogue": F: きれい? M: きれい。 The first "きれい" is pronounced as "きれ・い", and the second one as きれー" (<a href="https://soundcloud.com/user-44032890/kirei-kiree/s-bsJBt" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://soundcloud.com/user-44032890/kirei-kiree/s-bsJBt</a>¨). Do you think this is just random or do you see some explanation for this? Thank you.

Sascha Baer

First of all, the title screen is wrong :) A question though: I noticed that in the examples around 6:30, you pronounce the vowels with rather heavy friction, almost more like [oβ]. I had not noticed that before and am curious what’s up with that.