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Episode 5: Why I am rendering in a Realtime-Engine
🕑 Added 2020-06-27 09:52:09 +0000 UTCHey,
I wrote it a couple of times before, but I think it's important to explain again why I changed my workflow and chose to not render in Maya (=offline/pre-rendered, not realtime) but switched to Unity (=realtime, instant results).
Rendering in a Game(=Realtime)-Engine is in real time, with as many frames as your computer can generate within 1 second at a resolution you choose. Let's say 60fps (Frames per Second).
For episode 1-4 I used Redshift3D in Maya for Rendering. A so called offline renderer. The pictures generated are pre-rendered. So the computer has to calculate everything before the image actually shows. The quality is better, but therefore it takes longer to compute a frame. 1 frame takes a couple of minutes to render. And for that you need a super powerful, energy-hungry, heating-up Render-Beast-Computer that costs a fortune.
Let me give you an example of a regular movie, rendered with an offline Renderer with 20min length at 1080p (1920x1080pixel resolution):
- 20minutes = 1.200seconds = 36.000frames (@30fps)
So if you have 36.000 frames to render, and you do that in an offline Renderer like Redshift, it takes around 2-5minutes (and that's already fast) for 1 frame to render.
So that's something between 72.000minutes and 180.000 minutes for 36.000 frames. For the sake of easier understanding let's say it is something in between and pick 120.000 minutes. - 36.000frames = around 120.000minutes = 2000hours = 83 days
That is the number of days 1 computer would have to render 24/7 on a 20minute movie.
And that is just pure rendering time. And you don't start rendering before everything else is final!
What has to be done BEFORE is:
- Writing a script
- Getting voice overs recorded
- Designing the Characters, Outfits, Sets
- Rigging and Animating the Characters & Props
- Creating a previz to see if everything works nicely from a story-telling point of view.
- Doing simulations for FX (like Cumshots, Hair Dynamics) and then assembling that with the animation
- Setting up the Lighting and Materials for everything
- Defining the Cameras & Angles
- Test rendering individual frames to see if it looks good
- Setting up the shots in Maya so you can actually hit "render!"
- 1000 other things like troubleshooting software and hardware problems
- Managing the rest of my life & family
So once that is all taken care of, you then finally hit render. But the work does not stop there. There will be render errors, computer crashing and so on and so forth. So you can´t just hit "render" and come back 83 days later. So in order to reduce the render times, you get help and pay money to a so called "Renderfarm" to help you with that. They have a lot of computers and therefore the rendering is done way faster. But that costs money...
And then once the renderings are all done, the movie is not finished!
So what is left and has to be doen AFTER the rendering, is then the so called Post-Production&Editing:
- Checking all frames if they were rendered without errors
- Assembling them together to make a movie again
- Adding effects like Depth of Field, tweaking colors, etc. etc.
- Editing the final movie with Audio and final shots.
So that's roughly the work for a 20minute Movie at 1080p with 30frames per second. Not included is the management of things you need to outsource and pay for. Like Voice-Overs, Music, Sounds, Marketing, etc.
Now imagine you want that movie in 4k. Render-times go up around 3-4 times for that. And now imagine you want that at 60fps and not 30fps. That doubles everything.
Or imagine you figure out that you forgot something or made a mistake and have to re-render half of the movie. Or you make a design decision change (let's say you want a different hairstyle or color) and have to render the whole thing again.
So you can see that is not a very flexible workflow to say the least :)
And now let's have a look at the workflow in a Game-Engine:
You basically need to do everything there like you would for a regular movie. Like character/set/prop design, texturing, shading. Character rigging & animation. Coding for things that would be simulated (like cumshots) and so on and so forth. You get the idea.
And there are a lot of things also causing troubles. Like making it work on as many PCs as possible with different hardware and so on.
But once that is all figured out, the whole 120.000 minute of rendering time is obsolete! Because it happens in real-time :) And you can easily just add or remove or change things. For example:
- Mountain in the background? No problem!
- Changing Depth of Field on the fly? No Problem
- Different hair-style? No Problem!
- Different hair-color? No Problem!
- More camera angles? No Problem!
- Longer animation because it does not take longer to render? No Problem!
- Lots of lots of vegetation? No Problem!
- A great looking ocean with underwater mode? No Problem! (Just that would have been impossible for me to create in Maya. Simulation, settings, rendertimes... horrible)
- Adding characters with minimum performance impact? No Problem!
That is actually an important point. In the Island Benchmark we have 11 characters. In an offline Renderer that would take a lot longer to render. Imagine what we can do in the Realtime Engine... Crowds watching, Gangbang... You name it ;) Just a question of time and ressources to make it happen. - And so on and so forth. The options are endless! You get the idea :)
And there are more benefits:
- Update:
So in case I want to add more poses, change the set, whatever: I can ship an update to you guys anytime :)
- Authentication: I can add authentication to the version that runs on the PC. Piracy is a big problem with my Movies. And for realtime applications/movies/games I can at least add authentication that makes it a bit more difficult for pirates to steal my work. And with all the additional freedom you get with the realtime version, the motivation to buy the product is also higher. So that´s a great unique selling point ;) I hope more people will actually buy it because of that.
- Interactivity:
You can customize the characters, decide for the skin color, hair color, if you want pussy or anal penetration, Day or Night. All on the fly, no need to wait for me to re-render a complete movie. - Bonus Features:
We will make a "Pose-Movie-Maker" as Bonus feature. That's basically a couple of poses you can select from and have them play one after the other. With pre-defined cameras and a free cam. Just like in BHA or the SA-Game.
I am very happy that I switched to realtime. The creation process is also way more fun because you see everything instantly. If you change the light, fog, skin-shader whatever, it instantly shows and you don´t have to wait a couple of minutes for a result.
And the quality of realtime movies will improve over time. I am already thinking again about switching to Unreal for the next project. But this will be a process of several months. Me and my coder friend will have to learn everything from scratch again. But the quality is definitely better. Just have a look at the UE5 Demo :) So realtime workflow will sooner or later take over, also for feature films.
So you can see that the real-time option offers a lot more flexibility at the cost of lower quality. But it is also way more cost efficient (no Renderfarm required), the workflow is faster and and and :)
And of course, there will still be a regular Movie (MP4) version for everyone who does not have a PC!
But that will be lacking the customizing and decisions of course. Because you can´t do that in a normal movie.
One more thing:
I am really struggling with sales because of piracy. Despite the fact that a lot of people love my movies and I get great feedback, most people on the internet just pirate my stuff or watch the pirated version on Video-Platforms.
I recently crunched the numbers from 2017 until now with my Wife (she is a finance controller and really good with that) and we found out that almost none of my projects was really profitable after analysing really everything. I sometimes did not even reach break-even, sometimes I made more than expected. Overall we could just "survive" with the regular sales. But I would have had to stay in my regular job if I did not have the great support I get from you guys!
Without you guys could not create all that! So thanks again and thanks a lot! I love you! :)
Alright, that was a really long post, but I think you have a better idea now :)
All the best and have a great weekend!
Puppetmaster
Comments
Puppetmaster3dx
Got your message, thanks for the help!
Geoffrey Hill
Hi can you contact me ASAP as I have one of those links on a site that your going to want to get stopped I temp stopped being an supporter due to CV19 but I want to send you this link
Puppetmaster3dx
Thanks! But please keep in mind we did not yet make the switch to Unreal. And that the UE5 Demo was made by the Epic guys. So they had their best guys on it ;)
Puppetmaster3dx
Oh I am sorry, I missed to answer to your post! I am very happy to have you on board and thanks for your kind words and support! :)
kc
Thanks for the thorough explanation! I had bought a couple of your video sets before but have not kept up until just recently. I was SO pleasantly surprised to see your island demo and I think this is an exciting evolution for 3DX in general. As you mentioned, seeing that new Unreal Engine demo blew my mind! *edited: I notice you are totally on Steam already! Looking forward to the new game :D
I was on one of those video sites when I saw one of your movies. I watched it and I was really impressed that it had good animation and the characters weren't overly exaggerated and that the animation was smooth. So, instead of downloading the movie I saw, I found the link to your products. I bought the point and click game. I enjoyed that so I bought the DLC for it. Then I decided to join you here because I want to get more of these girls and support you at the same time. Thank you for making a great product and I cant wait to see more in the future.
Puppetmaster3dx
I don´t know. I might make a raytraced version after the release as option.
Xicor
how long for raytracing? :)
Puppetmaster3dx
:)
Hiro
I didn't know nothing how to works, and I am fully satisfied with the result, I can only encourage you
Puppetmaster3dx
The animation quality is identical to the pre-rendered stuff. The "post-production" is applied on the fly in the realtime version. Like Vignette, Bloom, Level-Adjustement, Saturation etc. are all already done on the fly. The big difference is the "crispiness" and shadow quality. Pre-rendered can have perfect Shadows, realtime not so much. And in realtime there is not perfect antialiasing (at least not with the tools we currently have in Unity HDRP). Those are actually the biggest differences between pre-rendered and realtime.
Puppetmaster3dx
But we won´t touch Unreal before Autumn. And then we just start to learn it. Most likely as a "side thing" also, so I can keep producing content.
lr
I understand why there will be a lower graphical quality on the animation, but Im curious to difference in quality.. The preview animations weve seen so far; are they a good example of the finished animation quality? Will there be much post production on the real time rendered video? Clearly post production cannot be done with the interactive version
Xicor
definitely a great idea to go to the real time, though unity isnt my favorite. i cant wait to see what happens once you go to unreal. The advantages of real time massively outweigh those of rendered.
Puppetmaster3dx
Thanks! I do have people I can ask for help a bit of help also, so it´s not that bad. But yeah, learning Unreal is tough. But I think in the long run it's going to be fine :)
Puppetmaster3dx
We will have the same as in BHA and the SA-Game. That´s really it. You authenticate it once with your A3D account and done. And that worked great for the other games. I would never add anything that affects performance or stuff like that. Just the regular "login" thing from A3D and that's it. So don´t worry, all tested and working fine.
Degenernate
The game engine would be a smart play even if real-time raytracing were not on our doorstep. Ampere has a real chance at finally blowing the doors off the perpetually 10-years-away promise of interactive photoreal experiences. I think all 3DX artists should be embracing this approach, but so far you are one of the few being proactive. That said, the learning curve on UE4 is an absolute bear, and I worry a lot of accrued conventional wisdom will be useless the second UE5 is available. The Blueprint/C++ divide in particular was a massive headache when I was wrestling with the engine, but perhaps with what amounts to a smaller gameplay loop than most traditional games you'll be able to navigate the waters. I wish you luck!
Ashtarte3DX
I get that piracy is an issue but you need to walk a very fine line when it comes to putting in any DRM or authentication. Short of putting in Denuvo, which will protect you at best for a few weeks these days, pirates are going to find a chink in your armor and crack it. Then you're just punishing those of us that paid for it.
Puppetmaster3dx
Don't worry, there won't be anything else than we already have for the games. You start the exectuable version of EP5, a browser window opens and you hit "authenticate" and then it just works. Nothing fancy, nothing annoying. Don´t worry :)
Puppetmaster3dx
Thanks, very much appreciated!
UltimateKisame
By the way, I almost forgot. I see that you speak of a 'low in graphic quality' I wonder: exactly how much 'low' is it? It's just curiosity.
UltimateKisame
I wish I could give you the key to how to end the piracy but I see it very difficult and it makes me sad to know that the movies are not generating a stable income deficit. I am honest and I admit that I only saw a fragment of one of your pirated movies, it was when I was new I saw the clip and said 'who is the artist?' and since then here I am, buying what I am good able to buy. (Other times I said that my salary is volatile and in my country they go looking for solutions ...) Leaving things sadness I'm glad I found a substitute for rendering in Maya. Seeing the time it takes I imagine that suffering from the EP4 especially with the change of scenes and scenarios. Luckily with the new system doing things like EP4 (or bigger) should be easier. greetings :D
CraneVein
Please don't have annoying DRM. I know that's not exactly what it is but that's just what I'm calling it. I don't believe you can stop piracy, no matter how hard you try and at the end of the day, it could end up just harming legitimate customers. This comment isn't in defense of piracy as I am on your patreon and am a paying customer but don't stress about it too much to the point where it affects the quality of your work. Thanks!
akka998
Wow, amazing read! I'm glad you are really putting work into this, it really seems like it would work. Future seems very interesting and I don't see many people doing things like you. Best of luck, we will be there!
Puppetmaster3dx
Oh yes! And that invitation to replay, change/explore/try is exactly why I hope it will sell better and with less piracy. Fingers crossed :)
Puppetmaster3dx
Thanks! Yeah the image sets... I would love to do them also, but I there is always something else popping up that needs to be take care of first...
Puppetmaster3dx
Oh yes, I was really going through all the pros & cons several times. Have a nice weekend too! :)
Puppetmaster3dx
Well, give people extra value so they are motivated to buy & explore. And that definitely works with interactive content.
Puppetmaster3dx
Thanks, you too!
Puppetmaster3dx
Yeah, basically like in BHA or the SA-Game. Not possible for movies, but anything that is realtime-engine based will have authentication :)
Puppetmaster3dx
Yep! And I think I can definitely improve my work over time as well. AND have more fun while doing so :)
Puppetmaster3dx
Yes, but the technology is improving quickly. And we should not forget that they had a massive team creating that demo. And UE5 will not be released before sometime 2021. But I really like where the whole realtime thing is going :)
Puppetmaster3dx
It means you will have more fun on the long run ;)
Josh Logan
I don't know wtf any of that means but if it's anything like ur other stuff I'm in. Your stuff is bad ass!
Icarus Unleashed
Just to be clear -- my VR "strip club" has 300 imported characters who swap out randomly with 15 or so "on set" at any given moment (dancers, bouncers, bartenders, waiters, and patrons), making the whole thing feel fresh and different every time I play :)
Icarus Unleashed
I love it! Thanks for all the details... I've been playing around with VR in Unity for 2 years (hobby, not profession), importing DAZ Studio characters (gen 3 and 8) and having fun with scripting AI. You're spot on - the tradeoff is that you may limit the scope of what you wanted to do (e.g. you may not be able to have that 100-Futa orgy ;) ), but what you get is an incredibly dynamic system that will allow you to change (within reasonable constraints for an "average" computer) absolutely anything. AND once you have the "framework" in place, changing set, story, characters becomes quite straightforward (though still as much pre-work as before).
nobody333
Hi guys. All UE5 demos out there come from PS5 or the next Gen Xbox console. There sporting mass storage devices that can feed the render engine with up to 9000mb/s (PS5, Xbox does about half of that). We won't see this kind of quality and or detail on a pc until we have and can affort PCIE 4.0 storage devices. Even modern M.2 NVME PCIE 3.0 storage maxes out around 3000mb/s. That being said, I fully support the change and hope we will get a real game, where we can play from episode 1 to the end as Brittany or Trinity or a fly on the wall, enjoying all the angels we want to see, choosing the holes we want to get plowed and the size of the item plowing them.
Chris3DX
This post does indeed explain why you moving too Realtime, sure the grapics wont be as sharp as redshift used too be, but as you said. the render quality will change over time, i have already seen a few YT videos of unreal engine. If one plays his/her cards correctly, then the quality of the movie/game/clip etc.. will be out of the ball park.
Oh gosh yes if u can imbed some kind of authentification in ur works then its the best. honestly hate to see ur work just floating around on the net.
Ben Guyton
I believe this is a great choice, even major studios are considering using Unreal because of the time it takes and the freedom to change entities, settings and characteristics on the fly. Can't Wait for the release, I'm really excited now! Take care and be safe!
MrBarkat
Is there anything that can be done about piracy? Its such a shame.
Bob Fink
Sounds to me like you have given this some serious consideration and come to the best conclusion for all involved including us the supporters. I'm looking forward to the release in July. You and your wife and crew have a wonderful weekend.
John Douglas
I no wot ever u do your work will be awesome same with your team still think u wood be awesome at images sets to
Kraig
No need to explain but I'm happy you did. The quality of modern graphics is so good I think it a no brainer that a game engine is the way to go especially when it solves so many problems. Having scenes created with a great modeler / animator / storyteller is just the cherry on top. Interactivity invites repeat viewings through variety. Heck even simply exploring a beautiful island resort is fun. Keep that in mind and maybe sprinkle some Easter eggs (treasure chests?) around the enviroments. ^_^
Danke für die ausführliche Erklärung! Ich nehme das Realtime-Rendering auf Kosten der niedrigeren Quali gerne hin und habe dafür aber enorme Möglichkeiten das "Life-Erlebnis" mit meinen Wünschen zu verbessern. Zudem ist der Blick hin zur UE5 natürlich atemberaubend! Falls da was kommen sollte, wäre das genial :)
Well was a lot of information put in there sir, like someone from kgb ask those info, personally i understand perfectly your swap to Unity, is like Matrix when you xan change everything on the fly, ill sacrifice quality inspite of actipn, story and character. Put like this: is anoying to see same scene like long time, i prefer low quality but pose changing and interacting in shor amount of time, although we are dinamic, not static. As regarding piracy, a good creator can starv but work has to go on, is in his nature, you need to be grateful that you can create such of gems for us, and look at better way, if no piracy, you wont have new people as a member ship., just think that piracy is a free ways to make your self known, have a great weekend. We count of your work, remember alwats
big one
Puppetmaster you er the best haf er nice weekend as well <3
