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Chapter 258: Wine and Meat

🕑 Added 2024-02-12 11:55:00 +0000 UTC

Comments

Logan Teague

I'm not mad, I'm disappointed

WolfWithAGun

I think it's less of Su Daji, and more antithetical of MOST cultivators. Why do they cultivate, why do they gain power? For useless, personal and shortsighted gain. Nothing actually matters to them, most have no honor, no virtue, no long term goals other than getting stronger. But getting stronger for what?

Blahful

He doesn't, but it's how he defines. For example, Mei points out that he is taking over a country. Though he denied it ( he still is)

Noah

I’m pretty sure his Dao is based around Judging the Dao’s of others, so the more reprehensible he finds their reasoning the more of an advantage he receives. I wonder how he would do against someone like Mud, who didn’t even craft their own Dao. I imagine he’d actually be weaker against Mud, since he’s basically the antithesis of normal “cultivator culture” in that he willingly let someone else mould his path.

Noah

“But I would bet with you that if he could only either end the civil war or get rid of [the guy who killed his childhood home] he would choose the first” We’ve already seen him make this choice. If he was really just out to stop the people that destroyed his home and killed his father then he never would have teamed up with Murang Bang, the guy who was literally, ultimately in charge of the attack. Even if he killed Murang Bang, that still wouldn’t ultimately go against Murang Bang’s wishes since all Bang wants is combat and death. Just wanting to kill him would only lead Jin towards fulfilling Bang’s goals and Dao.

Noah

But he doesn’t “define” himself as a judge because he doesn’t truly understand his Dao yet. He may currently deny it about himself but it’s absolutely true that he’s been judging someone or something every time he’s flexed his Dao.

BlueMangoAde

Nah. Liu Jin doesn't exactly define himself as a judge.

Ryan Brudnicki

I agree, a couple of guys futher down are making a pretty good case that he has defined his dao by what he stands against rather than what he stands for but that still really fits with a dao of judgement and it fits with both times we have seen him use his dao

Blahful

I think our boy has the dao of "Ruling/Judgement.". That's why it resonates with Justice ( Big sis ). Liu Jin is thus passing his judgement of others actions as "Hollow", or meaningful

Bonifacio Mario Peña Jr.

Su Da Ji reformat successful.

Gardor

He literally said to Lei Kong "I'm going to use you as a tool to accomplish my goals, because you're more valuable to me alive than dead". Him convincing an Elder to back his play to go in and mess with Murong Bang's power base was a couple months ago. I never thought Jin was a villain or even an amoral anti hero, but reading your guy's interpretation of him has made me realize I am pretty far away from the "white knight hero mc" end of the MC alignment chart.

Jesus Volcan

At the beggining yes but after that starting motivation and seeing were the quest for revenge took his father its obvious jin has evolved from that way of thinking. He still hates murong bang but i am starting to think more as a symptom of the cultivation world and less about the man. Maybe i am wrong but thats how i being reading jin now

burning_the_paper

“I am dissatisfied, not miserable,” These are the words you never want to hear from Liu Jin, especially not if you're a cultivator.

Malphas

He want something more than killing Murong Bang and it's peace in the Storm Dragon Empire. He did not kill Lei Kong for petty revenge and will forgive for a greater ideal. That's why his dao is linked to Hollow, and our protagonist defining himslef as "not hollow"

Amelgar

oof

Dovhat

Right, the growth that was removed from Xiao Heng.

Blahful

We do have one at hand.

Ahppy

Liu Jin’s dao seems like the antithesis of Su Daji’s.

Gardor

Hey we've already established that my memory of this story is spotty at best...but I don't think you're right. He joined the Eternal Flame Clan to get some muscle to put Murong Bang down, cuz the Eternal Flame Clan was the one perpetuating the civil war so they'd allowed Murong Bang to run rampant. He chose his faction during the succession battle based on which one would support him in making decisions that would remove Murong Bang from power. The first thing he asked for once he got enough clout, or merit, or however you wanna call it, was to make sweeping changes that'd remove Murong Bang from power. I'm not saying he's willing to sacrifice anything for revenge, or that he'd turn a blind eye to people he could help, but I am saying that his macro decisions have always been made with his end goal of revenge against Murong Bang in mind.

Jesus Volcan

No man his path and all his decisions have been to make his surroundings better many times people have told him different choices that better align to his interest and he never took them (like saving all those disciples of the eternal flame clan or going to the clan itself when he could have gone to his little wife and find more support there), his purpose transcends revenge to murong bang i think he is already realizing that. How will he do it who knows as his enemy seems to be human nature itself.

Jesus Volcan

He doesnt hate cultivation, he hates the cultivators culture something very different

Jasus

Ah sad. I had hoped he had a dao of life and death.

BlueMangoAde

Hollow!

SV

Or a third option, remove Su An and give her a body that supports her soul in its current state

Gardor

No I agree, how much conviction they have in their own Dao should have an impact on how much Jin's Dao impacts them. Like, that's basically the whole point of dao battles, you weaponize your understanding of some kind of concept against one another. How deeply you've embraced your own Dao is important. If Jins Dao was just him manifesting his negative opinions about people, without them being able to resist at all...well I think that'd be pretty weird. A fire cultivator vs a water cultivator sometimes comes down to who understands whichever law of reality better. And if someone really has a bunch of knowledge about the dao of explosions, more knowledge/understanding than Jin has about his Hollow Dao, it should affect the outcome of their battle of wills.

Gardor

I'm pretty sure the whole scheme of getting the Eternal Flame Clan to try to clean up the storm dragon empire was was just a means to an end to get revenge against Muran Bang, I don't think he'd work this hard for altruistic reasons to help strangers from a homeland he's never been to. More of a byproduct than his goal, I don't see what motivation he'd have to try to fix the whole country. But I definitely see how him wanting revenge on an Emperor level cultivator would seem impossible without some serious backing and extenuating circumstances. But, that's just my opinion and I've already been reminded in this thread that my reading comprehension in this story is lacking.

Pete

"He hasn't dedicated his life to cleaning up cultivators, he's dedicated his life to...killing the guy who killed his childhood home, I guess?" Not really? I think you are misinterpreting what his plans are about a bit, not that he wouldn't kill the guy if he could but I would bet with you that if he could only either end the civil war or get rid of him he would choose the first.

Pipeman

Liu Jin can't actually imagine the kind of world he wants to exist being a thing. It's just too unrealistic to him and he has no idea how he could possibly get there. So instead of embodying the things he actually wants, he embodies the unshakable conviction that the world he is presented with and the worldviews that others champion are hollow, lacking and empty. The only thing he knows to do is to deny the world and its faults, so he denies it in its totality.

Derek Walker

He can't hollow Murang Bang's dao because Murang Bang is an emperor with a fully developed dao and a very very strong soul. He was a mere true realm cultivator with a baby dao. I don't think that is the reason he lost against Bang. As Bright Sword noted when fighting Mud, he could have just overpowered his Dao if he wanted.

Prometheus

It might not just be how much Jin dislikes that Dao. Take Murong Bang, Jin hate the general And his Dao from the depths of his being, but he's also unable to Hollow it. I think Jin's (current)Dao exploits how literally Hollow the other person's philosophy is. If the other person's conviction in their Dao is only paper thin or rooted in some emotional dependance on their Dao being right rather than actually understanding the full implications and flaws in their worldview, then it crumbles immediately the moment they realize there Are any flaws. This is why Yan and Daji were smashed by it. Bang wasn't affected because he fully understands how disturbed his own Dao is. He Knows it's wrong and he Knows the alternatives, but he still has full conviction in it. His Dao therefore isn't "Hollow" enough for Jin to exploit. Jin is going to have to fully explore his own Dao in order to unlock its other applications if he every wants to even affect Murong Bang, let alone overpower him like the others.

Dovhat

Welp, time for some emergency soul surgery I guess.

Kiwilord

Oh second thought is that Daji is going to become the food (meet and drink) that will heal su an. The hallow Dao will damage Su Dajis ego so much that it won't be able to do anything as the weaker soul eats it

Kiwilord

Yes

Kiwilord

So I think I see our MCs Dao strength and weakness now. His Dao originated from his dissatisfaction with the world, in a way his belief is around the HALLOW nature of certain things, and how hey are literally worthless, in contradiction to what the would thinks. Basically a type of anti heaven dao or a paicular brand of against the heavens. I think what that means, his Dao is primed to be a anti Dao BUT the less objectionable he finds someones Dao the worse his would counter it. Like we may have a fight were he is like "fuck, I really see where your coming from so my Dao isn't turning yours hallow and therefore like a saop bubble... I'm going to have to let my wife fight you"

Derek Walker

I doesn’t seem we got an answer about the curse of the earth realm. My suspicion is that it is fundamentally not about the body but the underlying soul. Since Lui Jin still sees himself as human and Su Daji does not, he is affected by the curse.

Jesus Volcan

Ohh i thought the lighting stayed that color when you achieved the new level, but it makes sense

Derek Walker

From the same chapter he got his Dao “Liu Jin is trying to do good by the people in his army, but he cannot say he likes any of them. In fact, had they met under different circumstances, he’d probably hate them. He can be kind to people like Rust and Nail because he’s strong. If they were equally weak, he probably wouldn’t like them. If he were weaker than them, if he were another beggar in the streets, they’d probably try to take advantage of him. That is how most people are. That is how the world is. How annoying it is that it is easier to think of what he is against than what he embodies. Then again, how could it possibly be any other way?” At its base, he hates the cultivation culture that power makes right. That weaker people are at the mercy and whims of stronger people. That’s totally antithetical to how he was raised as a doctor. His path strayed to far from a normal doctors for that to be his dao. Instead he has always lived his life, at least since the fall of Xiao sect, by opposing what he hates.

Derek Walker

I think he can control which kind he uses. When he fought Han the first time, he used blue lightening at first but then switched to white lightening. I assume higher grade lightening drains more Qi so stepped down a grade.

Pete

Risky, but I doubt she dies so the question is will something remain of the fox?

Mr R

Who is the man he respected most in the world? His father. Not the Black Dragon, not Old Jiang, not his Elder Brother, but his father. His father was not a cultivator, none of the virtues his father displayed required him to be a cultivator. Yes, that was not the whole of the man, but it was the side of him that Jin knew and idolized above all others. And that was the only person in the world he knew who was without cultivation, save for the youngest of babies.

Gardor

Is that really where it comes from? I thought Daos were supposed to be something you believe in so strongly you can supercede reality. Something you understand at such an intrinsic level that it begins to define your whole life. And you're saying that Jin hates cultivation culture so much, he developed a Dao about it? He went to day camp training at a little sect in eastern Port City, and seemed to like most of the people. He was trained by an immortal cultivator and still deeply respects the man. He snaked his way in to one of the top sects of his country, and made friends along the way. His wife is at another one of the top sects. Everyone he knows, everything he does, is as a cultivator. Really, the only time I can think of that he encountered a cultivator whose existence annoyed him was that Renegade he poisoned or whatever. He doesnt seem to care about the excess of cultivators that often, or that much, imo. He hasn't dedicated his life to cleaning up cultivators, he's dedicated his life to...killing the guy who killed his childhood home, I guess? I'd have thought he'd have a better chance at a doctor related Dao, like healing or life. Or transformation, as he's changed both himself and others. Something he actually interacts with on a fairly regular basis. Or I guess he could make a poison related Dao, and that could tangentially feed into his thoughts on the corruption of cultivator culture. Not that I think he really gives a shit about that, or spends a lot of time thinking about it. His life for the past few years has been a quest for revenge, does he think his revenge plot is hollow, is that where it comes from?

walid bennour

damn , one chapter is far too little man you're a master of your craft, and your story has a lot to offer, you should dedicate yourself to it, and ask what you are worth, and people will happily provide

Jesus Volcan

Isnt it gold lighting

Robert Mullins

Liu Jin's dao is what he is against rather than any specific ideology or concept he supports. And so far he uses it to show people what he despises about them.

Silverias

It's an expression of his view of cultivator culture. Seeking power for its own sake is a hollow pursuit, and he rejects that. He has defined himself in opposition to that.

Robert Mullins

This explanation was pointed out when it first showed up. Chapter 233: `How annoying it is that it is easier to think of what he is against than what he embodies. Then again, how could it possibly be any other way? Liu Jin did not dedicate his life to doing something he loves. He dedicated his life to stopping what he hates. `

Moonkiller24

DAO?! THAT WAS HIS FUCKING DAO WOOOO

Ryan Brudnicki

Do we know thats his dao? I thought it was something more aligned with judgment, like he judged su daji and found her hollow, same with han

Silverias

Yeah, honestly, even more than with Han, this is a perfect expression of LJ's Dao.

Gardor

I never really understood how he ended up with the Hollow / void / nothingness Dao path, it doesn't seem to relate to his character or history or techniques or profession at all.

Pineapple

Dao type advantage? Neat.


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