MatHaz
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Wearing Armor and Stuff
🕑 Added 2023-01-12 20:00:03 +0000 UTCIs it Good?
This discussion came up a while back. In fact, I have had this post ready for some time and simply never got around to posting it for one reason or another.
Is there a point in wearing armor when everyone is a punch wizard? Is it useful? Does it do anything?
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: This may take a few paragraphs.
Let’s get something important out of the way first. No one, other than perhaps the lowliest of peasants, is wearing normal clothes. I sometimes mention how the robes Sect disciples wear are made of materials made to withstand combat with disciples on the same level. The same goes for armor.
The armor the regular soldiers of the Storm Dragon Empire wear is not some low-quality metal that will break after a few hits. It is cheap enough to be mass-produced by the Storm Dragon Empire, but that doesn’t mean its quality is poor. It is strong enough so people in the Nascent Realm can stand there hitting each other, and the armor will take it. Basically, it does what armor is supposed to. Offer an extra layer of protection during combat.
The weaker soldiers obviously benefit more from the armor. Still, considering the average level of the army, the armor is valuable most of the time.
Also, people in higher ranks get better armor.
The armor worn by the Three Heavenly Generals is good enough to withstand attacks from someone in the Emperor Realm. However, it is considerably harder to make and requires some very special materials and super duper forging methods. That’s why only three people in the story are wearing that armor.
It used to be five.
Okay but cloth can also be special and protect you, can’t it? You just said the robes worn by Sect disciples are made to withstand combat with other disciples of the same level.
Yes.
High-quality cloth absolutely offers protection. Much like with armor, there are varying levels of quality. For example, the robes worn by Core Disciples of the Xiao Sect are far inferior to what Core Disciples of the Eternal Flame Clan wear. There is no comparison.
All the same, there are things armor will do that cloth won’t. The same goes the other way. For example, armor is generally better against blunt force. However, it is also generally easier to obtain material for cloth that contains special properties. For example, the fur from a fire fox is innately attuned to fire, giving better protection against it and even helping channel attacks of that element.
To do the same thing for armor, you want to find Spirit Beasts with tough scales and hides, and that’s harder sometimes for more than one reason.
There is also a matter of availability and culture to consider. The Storm Dragon Empire has lots of mines and a militaristic culture, so they favor armor.
All that said, at the highest levels, there is functionally no difference. It’s really all a matter of how you min-max your defensive bonuses.
Comments
Belisaurius
Honestly, I just assumed that the Eternal Flame Clan used robes so thick that they'd double as Gambesons in a pinch. Silk is already strong enough to catch bullets with enough layers so a wealthy enough organization could make simple fiber armor out of it. It wouldn't be as effective as steel plate but in exchange would far more comfortable to wear.
JoBo12
Yes and No, Plate armor is not worse at blunt trauma protection then cloth armor. That is a myth. Normally plate armor is not just metal plates but layered. A top layer of metal plates with chain mail and cloth underneath. In this arrangement the metal plates help protect you from blunt force by making blows glance due to curvature and by distributing the force over a larger area. If somebody in cloth gets hit by the same blow of a war hammer they are not better of as someone in plate armor. And as you yourself said while plate armor restricts movement somewhat (especially once the armor is damaged) they were constructed to allow a full range of motion When you approach a foe in plate armor you need to chose an approach. Either you try to meet the armor with such overwhelming force that the blow carries through (war hammer, halberd) or you try to penetrate a weak points/gaps where the armor can not protect you as well such as armpits or eye slits (dagger, sword, arrow). Even despite this there does still exists the hybrid approach of trying to leverage overwhelming focused into a single point to actually pierce even the better parts of the armor (guns, spiked side of war hammers/halberds). Which doctrine you chose depends heavily on the range you are fighting at. To target weak points with a dagger you basically need to grapple with your target and in this kind of fight at very close range you can not effectively build up momentum with larger weapons making the more blunt approach less viable. Weight of plate armor was manageable but still mattered. The heavier the armor the more energy you need to accelerate and decelerate the armor when moving leading to higher energy expenditure and thereby also increased sweating. Armor is still a drain on stamina even if less so then some believe. Therefore you did not want to make armor thicker than necessary since thicker plates mean more metal and more weight. We can observe this when we look at the practical arms race which happened between guns and plate. As guns increased in effectiveness armor tried to increase plate thickness in turn to be bulletproof. This can be seen in the pike and shot era of the thirty years war for instance where you see both musket fire and plate armor cavalry. Yet thicker armor also meant heavier and more expensive armor. It became less and less sensible to field intricate suits of plate armor that could barely keep up with the offensive powers of muskets. This is why heavy cavalry evolved to the Cuirassier model by the time the Napoleonic era rolls around. To your last sentence. Almost all medieval weapons require a combination of attributes to wield. Weapons deal damage because of momentum. Momentum is speed multiplied with mass and speed is gained through acceleration which in turn is determined by strength and explosiveness (how quickly your muscles contract). You then need the dexterity to accurately maneuver your weapon to hit your opponent. If you can hit their weak point even better. Speed also gives your opponent less time to dodge. Further bladed weapons can deal more damage with less momentum as long as they can effectively cut through the opponent. As such you are not incorrect when you call swords a dex weapon. You need dexterity for accuracy but that does not make the speed and impact resulting from strength unneeded. Bows are also a curious case. You correctly say that draw weight and therefore the damage your shot will do and the projectile speed depend on strength, but you still need the dexterity to have a steady aim to be accurate enough to hit your target. Manual weapons are not a single skill check but combine multiple attributes. So this essay is longer than intended. Sorry for that, but I think the nuance is worth it.
Prometheus
IRL, padded armor(cloth) is actually better for blunt force(Halberds, and Maces are the primary Anti-plate weapons for close combat). Chainmail and plate are better against cutting(open wounds are a death sentence with garbage medieval medicine), with Plate-mail also being very effective against arrows(chainmail less so). Biggest issues with IRL armor also aren't mobility or weight(you could do your full daily routine in well-made medieval armor and barely notice. The main issue is overheating and sweating yourself into dehydration/heat-stroke because your armor doesn't allow your sweat to evaporate. Also, IRL swords are a DEX weapons and Bows are STR weapons.
JoBo12
To sum up: Short answer: Yes Long answer: This may take a few paragraphs. Medium answer: Economy Jokes aside, this makes Liu Jin's rampage in Night of Fire a lot more impressive since he was able to melt armor supposed to withstand Nascent Realm cultivators while only being in the beginning of the Nascent Realm himself.
JoBo12
REAL men: "Nanomachines, son. They harden in response to physical trauma."
Thomas Dey
“Why bother with armor if I don’t plan to get hit?” -Let Me Solo Her
Bunny Waffles
Armor is for losers. REAL men either dodge and parry everything or they get stabbed in the gut and bleed out in the dirt like a REAL warrior!
Guy
That link at the end was glorious 😂
Yoav
First lore/background stuff post!!! Nice. Didn't think it would be that fast
