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DITW 15-4: Colleen

🕑 Added 2024-07-29 14:57:25 +0000 UTC

Comments

Kat

JL the wait is over! Lol

Kat

Tom Petty. 😀 Waiting for the next chapter is very hard. Lol I hope it’s a Kimmy POV.

JL23

The waiting...is the hardest part. Everyday you see one more card. You take it on faith, you take it to the heart The waiting...is the hardest part.

Kat

I like Spain, Bill. Lol We had a great time there once. Nice ppl, too.

JL23

She was so distraught in that last conversation before leaving, saying things like she wanted to "burn" all by herself, and lamenting trying to take shortcuts, it just felt like she found out something in that conversation with Berg that indicated trouble she wanted to shield Josh from. The texts he got from her later would also seem to confirm that, at least until Josh claims she went radio silent. Then flash forward to now. Something may have happened in these 7 or so months to actually make Kimmy's life better, and the picture we're seeing make more sense. She doesn't right now seem like someone who has a lot weighing on her other than Josh accepting Colleen, but looks can always be deceiving. Again, she talks about living in dread and anxiety for every moment of the last "7 months," is that all because of Josh reuniting with his daughter or are there other factors at play.

Bill F Protagoras

I feel offended.

Kat

Omg 😆

JL23

We talk about Avernus, that would be Avernus to me, if I had to call everyone Tio/Tia.

Bill F Protagoras

You'd hate Spain, JL, 'tio and tia' are the equivalent of guy or gal/doll/or whatever!

Bill F Protagoras

I always wondered how Patreon did its prestidigitation to make each of our pages individual. And now I know... it DOESN'T!

JL23

Yeah, the cousin/uncle thing is just my own childhood complexity. My mother had several siblings 15-20 years older, and she had me later in life (for the time, she was 35 which would be normal today but not as much back then). So I have some cousins who are 20 years older than me. People would refer them to as my Aunts and Uncles sometimes cause they were so much older, so it just rubbed me the wrong way. I’m not sure we’ve been told what Sophie’s age, but since Meyer and Josh are around 30, I assume she’s no more than like 6 to 8, at most? So she just sees Josh and Kimmy as important adults in her life, and they are a generation older, so it makes more sense. Yeah, we’ve barely seen her father or sister in the story (I think once maybe). We know she has something of a rivalry with the sister, but I can’t imagine she’s told them anything in a way that would put blame on Josh for the separation. I don’t believe we’ve ever seen Josh’s parents, but Meyer knows enough to know they’re separated cause Kimmy cheated on Josh, so one would assume anything they know is colored from that lens.

Kat

😂

Kat

I used to call two of my parents’ friends Auntie and Uncle. They were no relation to me. It was the same with a friend of my grandmother, she was an Auntie, too. Second cousins in our family were always just plain cousins. Two of my cousins, who are close (not brother and sister, just 1st cousins), have both sets of their kids refer to them as Aunt and Uncle. It is a bit weird referring to Hyun as Kimmy’s ex sister in law. There’s no relation there whatsoever. She’s divorced from Meyer, too. Question, though, maybe Sophie refers to Josh as Uncle because there are no siblings around. We’ve never heard much about the Waters family tree or Josh’s family, his parents and possible siblings. And another question, off topic of course, have Josh’s parents met their granddaughter? How did Kimmy explain Josh’s absence in Colleen’s life to her dad? Did she throw Josh under the bus and make it sound like he deserted her? I doubt anyone knows about Colleen’s questionable paternity and Kimmy’s affair.

JL23

Yeah we don't know exactly. Perhaps the photo caused Josh to be distracted while riding and it somehow caused an accident where Meyer went you know what over tea kettle. There was also Meyer's $14k comment related to it. I guess as always we parse what little morsels KT gives as spoilers, and she mentioned she changed the timeline from 18 months later to 12 months partially cause she wanted Meyer to have the broken arm "now." Which would indicate Meyer is needed for something where he can't have a broken arm sometime around Colleen's first birthday.

JL23

I always thought those terms were interchangeable. But just read a definition and although my head now hurts, you are correct. A second cousin would be a child of one of either Josh's mother or father's first cousins. A first cousin once removed is your first cousin's kid. The once removed referring to them being a generation below you. In any event, he's not really her Uncle. But I shouldn't pile my personal insanity on poor little Sophie. Call Josh and Kimmy whatever you want, honey.

Chris K

Why was Josh looking at his phone on this bike? I have a quad lock on mine, but don't go through texts! Lol

KT Morrison

Those panties definitely rolled over the odometer.

Bill F Protagoras

I wasn't convinced by Josh's flip reply... I don't know but I suspected a physical altercation!

L_S87

I think it's probably to show just how bad Josh's mental state is? The implication that he lost focus and Meyer got hurt seems to be implied in the dialogue. Having ridden an ADV bike off road, I can tell you that 100% focus is required or bad things will happen. So it's quite realistic from that standpoint. Although most off road accidents don't involve going over the bars. I'd love to see the explanation for that one at some point.

JL23

Perhaps Josh and Meyer need to become superheroes and save the day on the bikes later on, so he can't have a broken arm then?

Kat

I agree with everything you said, JL, and that’s why we really need a a chapter with Kimmy’s POV. Kimmy owes us an explanation. Lol She may have changed since having Colleen. Sure, that part of her still exists, but she went through some huge things a few short days. Her employer called her out on stealing a lot of money from his business. Then she finds out that her husband nearly died, solely because of the things she did to him. Afterwards, as a willing participant, she curates and videotapes Devlin and Amy having sex. After she burns that bridge with Devlin, she calls her boss’ lawyer, and probably found out her fate. She went home and told her husband (2 days after he nearly died) that she was leaving. We don’t know what happened after that, only that she stayed with Hyun and then got her own apartment, and then had Colleen. Her focus now seems to be that of a provider and a mother. Where Josh may fit into that we won’t know until we get her POV. She was very tender with Josh, especially how she stroked his hair and face while he was holding Colleen. She also held his hand as they were waiting. These are intimate gestures that someone without love and feelings wouldn’t do unless there was something still there. The way she stroked his cheek, in particular, struck me as really loving.

Tracey52

What about the other conundrum? Why does KT need Meyer to have a broken arm at this time?

Tracey52

JL23, the time jump presents a problem for me too. I can’t see how they let a year go by with little or no communication.

Chris K

I remember Hyun did show contempt for Josh a few times when talking with Kimmy, and is or was sleeping with a married woman. She's not inherently bad, nor is she innocent in this either. Kimmy never would've thought to pursue Hyun for more than a friend until she sang the song. Hyun took the first leap in seduction. I think Josh does have a right to know because it wasn't done with any evil intent. Plus, it's just another pay off in a long story.

JL23

Agree on Hyun, Bill. I don't think she's done anything wrong. Yes she had a crush on Kimmy, but she never would have acted on it unless Kimmy gave her the signals she was open to something occurring. At point, to me, all's fair and what not. Only thing I'd say is that she should have thought of potential consequences to Sophie that getting involved with Kimmy might entail. Like how Sophie's father and favorite Uncle would handle the news and how it'd impact her relationship with them. Brings me to an entirely unrelated point, but one that's been bugging me. Meyer and Josh are cousins, so Josh is really not Sophie's "Uncle" but her 2nd cousin. I know, call people whatever you want and given the age difference I can see her seeing Josh as an Uncle. It's just I have a lot of older cousins and when I was a kid people also tried to refer them as my "Aunt" or "Uncle." I was always like no, they're not. Made me feel like these cousins were somehow superior to me or something if I called them that. I guess what I'm saying is I have as much deep childhood trauma as Josh lol.

Bill F Protagoras

I love Kimmy, but if she tells Josh everything he thinks he wants to know... she is a vain idiot who doesn't want any help or cooperation from him, let alone reconciliation. Although I can't see how it would come about because of his sore obsession with his wife's abject betrayal, a talk with Hyun would be a lot more productive. As 'she' cares for them both. Each in their own way, unless KT's writing has led me seriously astray. This is not an Allegory of the Manichaean Heresy. Josh is as skittish as a colt, and Hyun is gentle and kind and Sophie's mother. Hyun's influence on her daughter is manifest. Everything she's done in this chapter has appeared compliant, humble and loving. She is either a monumental hypocrite... or a better person than people give her credit for...

JL23

Yeah, there is so much that needs to be discussed. If nothing else I hope Josh asks all the questions he wants answered, and that Kimmy provides honesty on everything she's done. There's so much he doesn't know about, and most importantly doesn't know he needs to ask questions on (the money, Hyun, the video tapes, etc). The mystery guy and her wearing her wedding ring? Sure, but I don't think they can proceed unless Josh finds all of it out and determines if he's OK with moving forward. Anything else wouldn't be fair to him.

L_S87

I'm there with you two. I know I've been down on Kimmy, but Kat is right, she was pretty damn tender the last chapter. It felt like the first time in the whole series where she knew what the right thing to do was and actually did it even though it wasn't what she wanted. Which makes me wonder how bad the bleeding is going to be when the old wounds get opened up and they start having a discussion about what comes next. Because there's a lot to fix (if Kimmy can, I'm assuming she wants to based off how nice she was here) and I don't even know if Josh can handle that. Or worse, he can but Kimmy can't. Or doesn't want to. A lot hinges on how she afforded this house, why she bought it, and who the mysterious man in the photo is. I've come around to JL's thinking that it's someone Josh knows, but they're not friends and they aren't named Stone. His reaction is more, "Why are you with him instead of me like you said you wanted." Rather than, "What the fuck are you doing with that asshole!" To be honest, Kimmy not wearing her ring, but then doing so now is a tough pill to swallow, and I can't imagine Josh doesn't bring it up.

Chris K

What KT? They're the biggest whore in this story. 😂

Kat

I feel that way, too. I need to have Kimmy’s full POV. On an unrelated note, I’m in a car right now now that just drove by where The Winchester (Devlin’s loveshack) would be! Lol

JL23

I'm a bit like Josh, the emotional high of seeing him with Colleen is wearing off, and now I'm focusing on the reality that the upcoming chapters are not likely to be all sunshine and rainbows.

Kat

Me too JL. 24 hours later and I’m still obsessing over Josh and Kimmy. Kimmy was really tender with Josh. There’s still love there!

Kat

I need a DITW support group. Lol

Bill F Protagoras

I know... I know... We can all get through this together... or not?

JL23

But I need to know now! 😀 Speculating is just what I do, especially when things don't make sense to me. And it doesn't make sense to me for Kimmy to have given up on being with Josh after a few short months. I'm sure we'll find out, but can't help myself until we do.

Bill F Protagoras

I'm losing you again, JL. You're slipping back into the Kimmy that tasted the Fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil... ipso facto she is bad school of thought again. Kimmy made a series of mistakes that have changed the life of Josh for the worse. She has given him the priceless sop of a daughter to love and call his own (for purposes of duty of care). Lets give her the benefit of the doubt and see what else she has up her smooth seductive (expensive) sleeve. Hopefully it's not an elaborate tattoo that proudly proclaims... Yours Always Big Money Dick! Don't fret the logistics it's imaginary! Probably.

Bill F Protagoras

If it wasn't for bad luck...

JL23

Assuming Kimmy is free from consequences for her actions at Stone, and is rebuilding with a new job and new house without complications, I'm trying to figure out why it could be that she's still not pushing for reconciliation with Josh (that we've seen - we know she sent him pictures of Colleen, but Josh gives no indication she's contacted him about anything else in months). As I said, I'd find it hard to swallow if Kimmy made a big thing of staying away from Josh because she felt unworthy of him, but then in less than a year (while also having a baby and dealing with everything that entails), she decided to move on in a romantic relationship with another person, be it Hyun or another guy. But maybe it's more that just like Josh backslid to being haunted by his demons in her absence, maybe she has as well. We know the person who did bad things is still within Kimmy. And that even while she hates herself for it, there's still a big part of her that liked being bad, and how it made her feel powerful. She may hate Devlin, and I believe she does...but she's also drawn to him and to the debauchery in general that being in his presence offers her. Even when filming those videos, she admitted there was still a lot about it (and him) that she was still very attracted to. Maybe without Josh, and feeling hopeless of fixing herself to be worthy, she's succumbed to those things again. Either with Devlin or someone else. And now she feels even more hopeless and unworthy of Josh.

JL23

HTO, it's possible Stone Sr would not want to publicly go after Kimmy over the embezzlement, but he feels like the kind of guy who also just wouldn't be OK with her getting away with it without some form of punishment beyond getting fired. Guys like that don't want to give people the idea they can steal from them and get away with it. But hopefully we'll find out soon.

L_S87

Interesting point from both of you. I always saw that as her pushing Josh away to cover her mistakes so he wouldn't know just how badly she screwed up. She fixes it then comes back when the time is right. Of course, having seen this 12 months later time line, I think you guys are likely more correct. She has to make some sort of deal with the devil, one that would break Josh even further, so she left to avoid the whole "I'm doing this for us.", narrative that didn't work with Devlin and certainly wasnt going to work this time. Unfortunately, Josh still sank even further, so her "plan" such as it was, seems to not have really worked? I would like to see in their conversation Kimmy's take on how Josh looks and the things he's done for the past year. I can't imagine she approves of the motorcycle or him quitting work, so it would be interesting to see her bring that up or at least ask about it. (Especially since Meyer got hurt, and Josh has responsibilities to Colleen)

Kat

Thank you, KT. Getting lost in your stories, especially this past year (which has felt like 10 😣 Lol) has been something to look forward to, and take my mind off life and other stuff. You are so talented, and I’m happy to have the chance to tell you.

KT Morrison

I kept pushing the scene past where it ended. Like for an hour. Then I thought, Wait—maybe less is more! I'm so glad you noticed!

Kat

Right, I got that, too, like she was being forced to leave Josh in order to protect him.

KT Morrison

@ kat: ha ha!

KT Morrison

Ew, gross, Chris, ha ha ha

Kat

Ooops 🫣, sorry KT! Lol

Bill F Protagoras

I'm not jumping the gun, Kat. Yeah, for Kimmy and Josh their hearts and lives are in the baby girl's tiny delicate grasping hands. Yet there are shadows and dicy spots in the thoroughly engaging narative indicating that there is something, or are harsher things, that will be riveting her parents' attention... So thank goodness for the small mercies of Hyun and Sophie. Colleen could exacerbate Josh's hang ups. And trouble Kimmy's mind and seriously inconvenience her 'handling' of an already skittish Josh. Josh has been excessively tired and emotional recently!

KT Morrison

Thank you!

Chris K

Those panties have seen things! 😉

KT Morrison

It's this kind of honest investment that makes everything worthwhile for me! Thank you both so much.

JL23

Ah, yes. That too. Which would bring up how did she get a sample from that person?

KT Morrison

My pleasure!

KT Morrison

Wonderful!

KT Morrison

Bless you both!

KT Morrison

Or maybe just who it *isn't*!

KT Morrison

Damn you, Kat! *wags threatening fist* I can't remember when someone last saw through my gauzy prose!

Bill F Protagoras

A grand Irish name.

JL23

Yes, she would, but you can get a sample of DNA to test from a lot of different things, even as simple as hair from a hairbrush. Since I don’t want to live in a world where Kimmy is faking a paternity test to con Josh, I’m just going to assume she had a sample ready and collected to test. She probably collected it a long time ago and held it until ready to test.

Tracey52

I’m no expert on paternity tests, but wouldn’t you need a sample from Josh to prove that Colleen is his? Wondering why the name Colleen also. Great chapter.

Bill F Protagoras

The chapter was, and still remains so stunning... Nonetheless my mind is working overtime, working out feasible arrangements in dimly lit rooms... Metaphorically speaking... Nowadays truth and lies are effectively 'hidden', by bad actors, in the dazzle of daylight . Politicians and plutocrats. Unfit strong arm men. Barefaced liars... hiding behind women. Embarrassing pictures backed up with unconvincing lies.

Bill F Protagoras

It was, and still remains so stunning... Nonetheless my mind is working overtime, working out feasible arrangements in dimly lit rooms... Metaphorically speaking... Nowadays truth and lies are effectively 'hidden', by bad actors, in the dazzle of daylight . Politicians and plutocrats. Unfit strong arm men. Barefaced liars... hiding behind women.

Kat

KT, how did you come up with the name, Colleen? Was it maybe the name of Kimmy’s mom?

Kat

Omg, I cried so much when he was apologizing to Colleen. It was too much for me. It was like every horror and all the self hatred Josh had been through was worth it if only for this precious baby. He needs to get it together and be there for his daughter, and I think he will. Once again, I’m so over invested, I may have a breakdown like Josh when this book is finished. Lol

Bill F Protagoras

Colleen... The Girl... a determinate name,

JL23

There is just the tiniest part of me that fears that last passage means he could backslide to his fears and anxieties if Kimmy delivers an answer he might not want to hear about their future, and that could cause him to still keep distance from Colleen. I don’t think he would, and the rest of the chapter gives you the certainty he’s all in on being a father to her. He reacts with shame and sadness multiple times when thinking of the time he lost with her (his tearful apology to her is the most emotional part of the entire thing to me). But it’s Josh, and we always go 1 step forward, 2 steps back with him. Hopefully someone like Meyer would kick his ass if he tried to disengage from his daughter cause he couldn’t take the pain of having to watch Kimmy “move on.” Something like that would totally be on him though, he couldn’t blame it on Kimmy.

Bill F Protagoras

“I want you to hold her.” Such a simple seeming statement...

Bill F Protagoras

"Colleen Waters." What's in a name? Simply, a beautiful name. An understated synecdoche.

Bill F Protagoras

"Out in the hall a shadow passed across the wall and he drew in a deep, preparatory breath."

Bill F Protagoras

Maybe with another man.

Bill F Protagoras

"Fragrant, blissful and blameless." Aaaah... the many fragrances of babies

Bill F Protagoras

"The last image of Josh as she left the room would stay with her forever." The conditional... sounding so portentous...

Bill F Protagoras

"Fifteen minutes ticked by at the same mucky pace the last seven months passed. Every second battened on dread and drama." Mucky... oh, dear. What a word for such a pristine home

Bill F Protagoras

"A whole life that had moved on without him in it. He stared at the ceiling listening to the bizarre sound of his daughter suckling from her mother, feeling a thousand miles distant from the point in time he most identified with: the time his wife betrayed him and lied to him and cheated on him, tormented him and sought his destruction. His heart increased with rapid weight and he felt himself wanting to sink through the couch, into the basement if Kimmy’s house had one, down into the realms below where torment such as this was normal." Dis is hell... Welcome Back...

Bill F Protagoras

"she would let him have his moment without her adulteration"

Bill F Protagoras

I think Hyun and Kimmy's embrace might be interpreted as no matter how things work out we'll always have each other.

Chris K

That might just be hopeful. I hope he got a full time position in Rome and convinces Kimmy to go with and start over. (Probably not. Who knows?)

JL23

When he goes to see the stylist 2 chapters ago, I believe that is taking place in the week leading up to seeing Kimmy. He mentions to the guy that he’s going back to work “soon.” So he’s already called Swanson at that point to get his job back, which sounded like they were open to, or had plans to go back.

JL23

It could explain Hyun being upset, not only is Kimmy leaving Josh, she’s also not going to be with her either. However…there is another possibility. Maybe Kimmy hasn’t even told Hyun the whole truth. Just as she wants to protect Josh, she’d also want to keep Hyun and Sophie safe. If all is not what it seems, she may have told Hyun she’s moving forward with “mystery man” so Hyun also is unaware of whatever the actual truth is.

Kat

It was such a beautiful moment. I’ve read it over and over today…not getting much work done. Lol As much as the last chapter troubled me, and wouldn’t leave my mind, this one is also stuck in my head. Haha It’s just such good writing. The dialogue, the emotions, feel like real life. I’m still hoping for their relationship, but I’m more happy that it looks like Josh has fallen in love with his daughter.

Kat

I would be upset if she moves on with Hyun, but it’s a believable scenario. If she’s really serious with another man, why is her lover, Hyun, living in the house with her? Could you see Hyun there when Kimmy has her new love over for the night? I can’t envision that. Also, wouldn’t Sophie let something out about Aunt Kimmy’s new friend?

JL23

Plus, she immediately came from her conversation with the lawyer and told Josh she had to stay away from him and earn him back. That has always read to me that she was going to have to be involved in something really bad to get out of trouble, something she didn’t want Josh anywhere near or involved in.

JL23

Yeah, even if I could ultimately accept it and hoped Josh moved on, if the answer to the money is Kimmy found some rich benefactor to help her out of that mess, and because of that she fell in love with that guy…I’d kind of hate her for that. But maybe it would be consistent with her finding out her “truth.” Her getting close to Hyun and ultimately wanting to move on with her, would still be upsetting, but I guess more understandable to me in the end? I still believe it’s more likely she’s had to make compromises to get out from under being in trouble for the stealing, and the man in the photo is a key to that. And it’s likely something she still doesn’t want Josh mixed up in, so she’s not going to give him the truth yet.

Kat

I really think an ambiguous ending is where we’re heading. Now please prove me wrong, KT! 🙏🤪 Lol The money thing is still bugging me. Stone and his lawyer threatened her with potential disbarment. That doesn’t just go away overnight, especially when you’ve angered the boss’ son, and have some sex tapes of him doing humiliating things. Regardless of the stealing, she could have caused the company a lot of trouble. What happened in 12 months to get her to where she is?

Chris K

I wonder what Josh was up to in the week leading up to this night, with his new resolve? Did he get his job? Did he file for divorce? Did he get his own damn place like an adult? I really hope he shows her the pic from the article instead of just asking. Put her on the spot. Does she know he's seen that pic? (I mean, it was public but does she know that's how Meyer got a broken arm?)

Kat

I agree with you, JL. I’ve detested Kimmy and things she’s done so many times throughout this book, but I also don’t think she’d cut Josh off unless he walks away from Colleen. There’s so much we still don’t know. One being, how can Kimmy afford this house? As for the man in the picture, I don’t think she’d move on with another man while she’s living with Hyun. As much as it would hurt Hyun to see Kimmy get back together with Josh, seeing her with another man while she’s there playing the role of spouse/babysitter/housekeeper would be too much. Plus, Kimmy has always seemed to be more careful with Hyun’s feelings than Josh’s. She not going to hurt Hyun outright.

JL23

That would actually be an ending I’d be OK with, and would feel “real” to me. More ambiguous on whether they’ll ultimately be together, but where we see they are dedicated to being there for Colleen as a team. But that feels like a story told in just a few more chapters, at most. I’d still feel unsatisfied if the answer on the money Kimmy stole was she just she figured out a way out of that without consequences. I mean, good for her if she did, but it doesn’t strike me as realistic. You don’t just get away with stealing $75 thousand.

Andrew Mellein

I want a HEA too. Especially when they have a newborn baby together. I think Kimmy has matured every since she stormed out of Devlin's apartment. I think Josh's near death woke her up. And killed the childish Devlin-like sadist inside her.

L_S87

Agree again, Kat, on not walking away from Colleen. He'll be there for her like Meyer is for Sophie, probably even more so to make up for his mistakes. Not sure how that's flavored with his continued issues with Kimmy. We'll see.

Kat

I know, right? I happy cried when he saw Colleen’s eyes. 🥲

Kat

HTO, I’m overjoyed that there is someone else out there that cares for these two as much as me. At times, I’ve felt a little nuts being so absorbed in their fictional lives. Lol The past year has been a rough one for me personally, and this story, regardless of how tragic a chapter, was something I’ve looked forward to. It’s so much more than a dark, bully, cuckold drama. It’s about two very broken people trying to find their way through the pain of life. While Kimmy caused much of this pain through her despicable acts, I still want a HEA for her, and for Josh. I’m going to be so sad when this book is over, but happy to have found KT and a place to discuss her engaging writing. 🙂

JL23

They’ve made so many mistakes, and maybe they can’t recover their personal relationship. But amongst that wreckage, they created a precious little person that is a piece of both of them. There is something beautiful about that. Man (and woman) capable of creating good and bad at the same time. It’s fundamentally human as well.

Kat

Kimmy doesn’t seem to be as happy as her polished veneer would suggest. Whether she wants Josh to be a father to their baby, or back as her husband/ best friend, she wants him in her life, but I think it’s more for the baby right now. The time it would take for Josh to fix himself is too long for an epilogue. I’m still pulling for a HEA, especially after that moving chapter, but Kimmy has some major explaining to do. She covers it all up under expensive clothes and a beautiful smile, but she has stuff going on with her, too. I wonder if the book will end with them co-parenting, and getting to know each other again.

JL23

Yeah, I’m hoping he asks about the man. Seems like he’s assuming she’s moving on with him, we kind of assume she’s moving on with Hyun…but maybe it’s neither of those things. I’ve been as critical of Kimmy’s choices as anyone, but I don’t believe she’d fully move on from Josh until she got some level of resolution on him accepting Colleen as his. I think she always hoped he would, but she wouldn’t move on totally unless he rejected Colleen outright. Also, I still firmly believe there is something we don’t know about Kimmy’s seeming success. The man in the picture is probably a key part of that. We may not find the exact truth of what is going on with Kimmy next chapter, but hopefully we discover who that man is, and how Kimmy ultimately chooses to explain him, and her relationship vis a vis Hyun as well.

Kat

This was such a good chapter because of the emotions. It’s what’s made me feel so attached to these two. Sometimes it really hits you, you know? Such good reading. I agree with you that it’s all about Colleen now. What’s best for her? I think Kimmy still loves Josh, but might not be in love with him anymore. Josh is just realizing that he has a daughter. He’s not going to walk away from her now, regardless of whatever happens between him and Kimmy.

L_S87

100% right, Kat, on what Josh needs to do. But... how does he do that when Kimmy evokes such feelings due to her actions? It's kinda obvious his main reason for staying away was worrying about who Colleens father was, but his anxiety also shows part of it was Kimmy herself. Growing and fixing those problems you noted won't be easy with Kimmy front and center as a constant reminder. Not unless Kimmy pulls some sort of miraculous rabbit out of her hat that makes this all go away. Dont see that happening, but I could be wrong. Josh is in a tough place. There's no easy fix here. It will take time and a concerted internal effort to change how he views himself. The shit Kimmy pulled over 14 books made it much worse. So I'm not sure how fixing that while living with the memories Kimmy evokes every time he sees her will work (if Kimmy tries to push for them to be together). We'll see what Josh has to say next chapter.

L_S87

Good point JL, about Kimmy's feelings coming through with that touch. I didn't think about that until you mentioned it, but she's touched him multiple times here, when she didn't need to, but clearly wanted to. Wanting to touch Josh, to comfort him, means something. Whether that's enough given Josh's anxiety and fears of betrayal... well... we'll see. He needs time to fix this, and only Kimmy can make sure she's part of that process so fixing it includes accepting her back. Josh has to fix this for it to work, but Kimmy can help. If she wants to mend their marriage, she has to be a part of it, imo. Josh fixing it sans Kimmy, while she's getting photos with another guy... I don't see how they stay together. Arguably they shouldn't anyway, because Kimmy has continued to do things that don't inspire trust. We'll see what they talk about.

L_S87

It was pretty amazing, wasn't it, Kat? Probably the best chapter in the series, simply because of how profoundly emotional it was. I'm still not sure on the whole Kimmy motivation thing. While I do agree it comes across as Kimmy waiting on Josh, I feel like that's about Colleen. Josh pointed out before that he tried contacting Kimmy multiple times and she radio silenced him. That doesn't come across as someone wanting Josh but waiting on him to be ready. Although I could see Kimmy deciding the only way she could ever mend her marriage with Josh is for him to first accept Colleen as his so that issue, which was huge for Josh, wasn't between them. There's still a lot more between them and reconciliation, but that was probably the biggest. I could see Kimmy deciding she would stop taking until Josh decided he was ready to accept Colleen, because he'd never accept Kimmy with Colleens parentage between them. I'm not convinced that's the only reason, though. There's a lot of unanswered questions and more going on then Colleen. If Kimmy was waiting for Josh, why is she pictured with another man, no ring, and clearly giving the publication her name as "Kimmy Chang".

JL23

I think it’s a sign she still cares for Josh, and wanted to be included in that moment of joy when the light bulb went off in his head. But also realizing that would be selfish of her, and that Josh deserved to have that moment to himself. We can tell she does care, the tender way she touches him when he first holds Colleen to calm him shows that. But we’ll see if that’s enough to try and make a relationship work. Honestly, I’m feeling a bit like you do. I think both of them, assuming they still want to be together, should still take time apart and focus on their daughter. Right now, their personal relationship is not built on trust. Josh does not trust Kimmy due to her actions, and Kimmy does not trust Josh to be strong enough to share her problems with him, and to let him try to be there for her. Those kind of trust issues take time to work through. We’ll see if either realizes that, or if Kimmy has already kind of made that decision herself. I still feel like the bulk of this chapter tells me she hasn’t given up on a reconciliation, but it might not be the best thing for either anyway at this point.

Donkatsu

KT, you said so much with such economy of language. I cannot but stand in awe. And you still leave us panting for what comes next!

Kat

I like your interpretation, JL. Life is simpler when all you have to focus on are betrayals and anger. Moving on means that you have to deal with those things. He also has a new person in his life, with new possibilities and many new important responsibilities. He’ll have to clean up his act and grow a bit if he wants to be the father that baby Colleen needs. That may be a scary thing for Josh to do, because he’s lived in this place of fear and anger for so long. He’s obsessed about himself and his shortcomings (as he sees them) throughout this entire book.

Kat

Beautiful, beautiful chapter, KT. I’m still tearing up, and as always, there was more going on than we suspected. I’m so relieved to see that Kimmy is not the heartless person she appeared to be in Josh’s narration. And the part where she said she withheld the paternity results from him, because she wanted him to see with his own eyes that Colleen is his…🤌 The chapter was so beautifully written, the way you unfolded every detail. Hyun in these last two chapters, at times seems more like hired help and not Kimmy’s girlfriend. There’s a lot that can be surmised from their embrace in the kitchen. I don’t think it was anything romantic. Hyun may have strong feelings for Kimmy, but what I got from Kimmy was it was an embrace of relief, that finally Josh was there. Finally he was with THEIR daughter. He finally gets it. This seems to be something that Kimmy has wanted for sometime, but it was Josh who was not ready. She sent him pictures that he looked at once and then put away. It seems like she has had the proof of paternity for sometime, too. Even Hyun states that Josh looks good. That leads me to believe that Hyun knows Josh is not gone from Kimmy’s life and hopes. They may be in a relationship, but Hyun is more invested in Kimmy than the other way around. It was always like that. Hyun is probably afraid that her close time with Kimmy may be coming to an end. The best part of this chapter was what it brought to Josh, finally some peace. Of course their was angst and worry, it’s Josh were talking about here. But there was also relief and joy. When he sees his mother’s eyes in Colleen, and when he apologizes to her, I cried. The fact that Josh is still being pulled back into his trauma and anxiety makes me think a quick reconciliation is not going to happen. He’s also under the impression the Kimmy is with another man, “a man with a wife and daughter, a wife with another man, a home. A whole life that had moved on without him in it.” I don’t think he suspects that Hyun may be that other person. Again, wonderful chapter, KT. Truly beautiful.

Chris K

Right?

Bill F Protagoras

How much paperwork does Kimmy have on hand?

JL23

Yeah, I guess I’m not sure how to read that passage at the end from Josh. Is he lamenting letting his fears and anger at Kimmy’s betrayals keep him from being able to get to this moment quicker, and as a consequence he gave Kimmy time to realize she wanted something different and maybe slip away from him for good? When he says he wishes he could sink into the basement where “this” torment was normal, is that his way of saying that as painful as it was, focusing on the betrayals and anger was simpler. His life is now more fulfilling with Colleen in it, but it’s also more complicated and fraught with different heart breaks, trying to figure out where things stand with Kimmy and how he handles that. That’s sort of how I read it, but it’s open to interpretation.

L_S87

I'm kind of wondering if Josh gives that news. The fact that the golden glow from finally holding Colleen wore off so fast once Kimmy was in the room makes me wonder if Josh has his own decision, perhaps not in Kimmy's favor. You're right that Hyun's fears point toward Kimmy not having given her any sort of firm "we're together, the past is the past" reassurance. Even Hyun herself says "Josh looks good." As if pointing out she knows Kimmy still has desires in that direction, wanting to mend their marriage. It will be interesting to see how "The Talk" goes. I feel like Josh will have questions. The answers will be interesting. Maybe we'll finally find out who the mystery man is.

L_S87

For your number 2, JL, that's an interesting take i hadn't thought of. I took it more as wanting to be a part of that moment, inserting herself in it so she could enjoy watching Josh with Colleen. And potentially get side benefits via the softness Josh shows in those moments. (Forgiveness via association) Versus doing the "right" thing and letting Josh have his moment, (unadulterated as she stated) with the stain of her betrayal and mistakes. Part of that is driven by Josh's reaction after Kimmy comes back. The rose colored glasses get taken off and the anxiety comes back. Partly because, imo, he sees Kimmy so happily feeding Colleen, knowing she's been enjoying that closeness for months, and Josh hasn't, because of Kimmy.

JL23

I think you can definitely read Hyun’s actions that she believes she’s in a relationship with Kimmy, or that at least she felt it was moving in that direction, and now Josh being back complicates things. It just feels like there’s more here. Kimmy speaks of living in constant “dread and drama” for the last “7 months.” That kind of tracks to my timeline when it seems she stopped texting Josh and moved out of Hyun’s, before she had the baby (Colleen was born around mid April to mid May, so at most she’s right at 6 months if I’m mathing right) Is that “dread and drama” solely about wanting Josh to meet Colleen, but then knowing she’d then have to reveal she was moving on with Hyun? Possible, but still seems to me there is more, and it’s likely related to whatever has happened that allowed her to have this house. Also, if Hyun was confident Kimmy would choose her, why would she react with such fear? We could be setting up the “love triangle” scenario, but again I don’t feel like that’s the story we’re telling here. We did a big buildup of everything Kimmy had done at Stone to put herself, and potentially Josh and Hyun, in real trouble. But now all that’s been resolved and we just going to forget it ever happened? Or it was only being used as a plot device (along with Josh going in the water) to make Kimmy decide she had to leave Josh and ultimately discover she’s better off with Hyun? Seems unlikely, and would be unsatisfying to me, if that’s all it was used for. But I’m not nearly as unsettled now, I have the image of Josh holding his daughter and at least finding purpose beyond pining for Kimmy. Even if future chapters go back to that, Colleen gives him a tether in the world, to get through whatever news Kimmy will give him about their relationship.

Chris K

Maybe Hyun realizes for the first time, the full weight of being a homewrecker? Maybe she's doubting her choices as it hits home?

JL23

Now that my emotions have calmed and I’m back to projection mode, I guess the little hints here would support the idea that Kimmy/Hyun are a thing, or at least that Hyun hopes they are a thing: 1) Hyun seemed reluctant to leave when handing over Colleen to Kimmy. 2) Kimmy reference being caught between poles…wanting to stay with Josh to witness him realizing Colleen is his, but wanting to find Hyun. 3) Hyun with the thousand yard stare into the fridge when Kimmy finds her. However, Kimmy comforts her then, but not in a romantic way, at least that we see. And Kimmy goes back to “her” bedroom but that could just mean she’s not sharing one with Hyun so Sophie doesn’t realize what’s happening. So there could still be other reasons why Hyun is so fearful. Maybe she knows Josh officially accepting his role as father is going to mean Kimmy is implementing a new plan that puts her in danger. I don’t know, and don’t much care right now, but feels like there is more to it than just simply Kimmy is moving on with Hyun as a partner.

L_S87

You took my breath away, KT. So well done. Those few sections of Josh's discovery were awe inspiring, with a hint of hurt for what could have been. And for wishing he'd conquered his fears and done this sooner, for Colleen's sake. Yet not without it's own morsels of dread to ponder, whether from Kimmy's POV, what little we got, that showed her and Hyun are definitely still a thing, to some of her statements that hint Josh not being there potentially had impacts beyond Colleen. And of course, the infamous, "We should talk." I wonder if Hyun will be a part of the dinner and conversation. I could see Josh asking "How long? Before or after you left?" And wondering how that gets answered. I could potentially see Josh making decisions regardless of where Kimmy is at simply because the betrayal will never not be an anxiety inducing problem for him. Her being with Hyun simply makes that easier. It's interesting to read how this is unfolding, all the differences from what I had envisioned so long ago when I hypothesized Hyun being Kimmy's parachute when it all went pear shaped. At the time, so many said that felt far fetched, unlikely. And they were right, because this is so different then I thought it would be. And we still have no idea what's really going on with Kimmy beyond her and Hyun. Hopefully next chapter is fully from her POV and Josh asks some questions that give insight. I feel like Kimmy's "I wish you'd been here" statement portends more than just the obvious in relation to Colleen.

HTO

I didn’t vote for the “bully” option at the start of this and I could never have imagined how obsessed I would become. DITW was such a welcome diversion during Covid lockdown and I spent long hours dwelling on how this was going to go down. Thank you KT for sharing this engrossing story and creating characters that are so real and I have come to care so much about. Like Kat, I’m a little embarrassed. Lol. Like others, I am saddened to see Josh’s state and see that their breakup was so hurtful to them both with so many loose ends, but their communication was always terrible! I have to confess that I have trouble with the realization that Josh has had no contact with Colleen as Kimmy has seemed confident Josh is the father. Despite all that has happened, Josh does not seem like the type to abandon his pregnant wife and baby. Kimmy has obviously landed on her feet, professionally at any rate. I want to believe her success has been at Devlin’s expense. She hinted at a revenge scheme and I hope she turned the tables on him. I was never worried about the embezzlement. The Stone brokerage would never expose itself to the embarrassment over so little money. Perhaps the theft was just an opening round of Kimmy’s revenge. I have one lingering question from the opening of the saga. Did Josh ask Devlin to fuck Kimmy in at Tiffiney’s picnic table? Or, did Devlin just put that into Josh’s drunken head? I never understood why Devlin let that go after “reminding” Josh that Josh asked for it in the early chapters. Why would he not keep that going? Thank you again KT. I have checked your Patreon almost every day for years and now feel a part of my like is almost over. Hard to believe, but looking forward what comes next.

Kat

Still reading, but had to stop to get some Kleenex. “She’s Colleen,” Kimmy said. “Colleen Waters.” Omg, I’m a mess right now.

Steve McCarty

Thank you KT, wonderful!

Bill F Protagoras

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck! So beautifully written. Only little prickling tears... blink-able to keep on reading... Subtle, nuanced, avoiding cloying sentimentality. The tools of Imagist poetry applied to your own distinctive prosody. I will never tire of congratulating you on your towering writing skills. I don't think I would be mistaken in saying you hold us all in the palm of your hand. Your descriptive powers are verbally and emotionally nitid. Sharp. Clear. I am so glad I joined your Patreon. I couldn't admire you or the work you do more. No matter where this might lead us. Loved the baby suckling sound track... The doffing of her black attire too... Medvedenko: Why do you wear black all the time? Masha: I'm in mourning for my life, I'm unhappy. Anton Checkov The Seagull As JL said food for thought. Another cornucopia of relevant and revealing detail.

JL23

Not fair KT. Not fair to release this chapter when I’m still working, and now all I want to do is cry and read this 1,000 more times. I don’t even care anymore about what else is happening, if Josh and Kimmy are going to make it, if Kimmy has moved on with Hyun or someone else. I don’t even want to try and interpret the small morsels left that hint on what else is going on. I’ll go back and do that later. Right now, I just want to focus on the image of Josh discovering he really is a father. What a beautiful moment. Whatever happens from here, Josh is a father officially now in his mind. And I have faith Colleen will give him the strength to face whatever hardships are coming for him in the future.

Chris K

Oh my! Something went right in Josh's life! Didn't think it was possible! Lol


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