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Fighter and Dwarf Questions
🕑 Added 2025-01-02 06:27:19 +0000 UTCHey all!
I had a ton of fun answer Forest Green's questions about the rogue, so I decided to pull the questions from the last two posts and answer them here. I also think that answering questions in a format that emails them to everyone is probably more helpful. Let me know if you like this approach. It'll be in addition to my regular content drops.
Mountain Dwarf and Miner
Eva: The question is always how do you fit humans into this in an elegant way. Also putting more mechanical weight onto "race" makes it feel more significant, which may not be what you wanted.
For humans, I’d like to try giving them more identity. I see them as cosmic free agents, created to serve as the main driver in the war between law and chaos. I also think that they are the race most likely to mingle with others, making them great diplomats, ambitious empire builders, and inspiring leaders. Specific TBD.
Ideally, the mechanical weight feels resonate for a race’s concept without feeling limiting to player imagination or character building.
Forest Green:
The idea that a 180 year old dwarf, who spent every day working in the forge but almost never gained XP from defeating a monster, does not have as developed a dwarven physiology as an 80 year old 4th level dwarven fighter, is an example of the feeling of a disconnect that racial feats being tied to class levels creates.
I’d like to focus the racial advancement as a function of a character’s growing mythic power, with levels reflecting both talent and cosmic power. I’ve been thinking about playing past 10th level, and I keep going back to comic books. Superheroes can deal with street level and cosmic threats, usually depending on their stature, notoriety, and power level. My basic idea is that level serves as a cosmic beacon, with characters hitting 10th then able to more easily and safely venture out to other planes.
That’s a very long way of saying that the race benefits aren’t meant to be physiological, but rather mythic or magical in nature. So, the dwarf forgemaster is very talented but does not have the mythic power or resonance of the 8th level dwarf fighter.
Tying into a comment Forest Green makes about NPCs and how their stats might work – I see proficiency as a reflection of characters, and extending to combat and skills is a function of being an adventurer. The expert artisan town mechanically speaking might have a +0 proficiency bonus, but a +10 bonus to their specific area of expertise.
Forest Green also questioned whether something like Stone Gullet makes sense at later levels. If it reflects dwarven toughness, why does it take long to come into play? I think I need to reconsider these benefits to make sure that they feel sufficiently “advanced” or heroic for characters, rather than the bog standard benefit you might expert a dwarf to have.
Darkvision and the Miner Background As your version of darkvision gives up to dim light there is an option to move darkvision, at least in part, to the background.
That’s a good point, and I had thought about it quite a bit. I think it makes more sense in miner as I consider it. At one point it was there, but I pulled it out to keep it in the dwarf entry. Would love to hear thoughts from others about this. I think I am 90% likely to move it to miner.
- Stone Lore Would a dwarf getting advantage when searching stone structures for hidden features, be equal to two humans searching the structure together (where the human with the better search skill gained advantage on the check from their ally)? Should one dwarf be better with stone than two average humans?
Great question, and I love how you framed this in the mechanics and narrative. It’s a great way to show how something might not reflect the design intent in play. I think two humans equaling a dwarf feels too weak, and points to the need for something a bit spicier.
I like the inclusion of the military pick (and light armour) as a thematic martial option for a less combat focused class. Would this generally favour a spellcaster as, for example, a rogue would already have light armour so it might feel like they were getting a lesser benefit?
Yes, it would probably be of most use for spellcasters especially combined with the dwarf’s +1 AC. If mage armor is in the game – leaning toward keeping it around, and I think it’s in the MU’s list – it lets a spellcaster burn points elsewhere. I’m ok with the caster feeling a little advantaged here, mainly for the flavor of dwarf casters feeling tankier than elves or humans.
Fighter
And questions for the fighter revisions:
Mark Craddock: Say I took Crowd Control at level 1, could you drop it at level 3 and pick up Rolling Thunder?
Great catch, yes I want to allow that. I’ll add it to the next revision.
Cloux had a good suggestion or cleaning up the wording on Battle Mastery:
"You can use two Combat Maneuevers as part of the battle mastery attack action: you gain the Combat Maneuvers [name] and [name] as well as one additional Combat Maneuver of your choice from the list below"
I like that, and think I’ll adopt something similar for the final text. It reads much cleaner and brings the design together.
Andrew hartis: Are the dead levels here meant to be for subclasses?
They are there for race and background, which I conveniently posted after the classes. I see subclasses as providing alternate class features, presented as alternatives a player can take. Ideally, I’ll get the power level right so that DMs can homebrew by mixing and matching features between options.
Forest Green:
Hi Mike. I like the changes, cheers :) As a suggestion, where Heroic Surge once per long rest can combine at later levels with Superior Battle Mastery to give a big nova burst, would it work to smooth it out a little? Instead of an extra action it could be specifically Battle Mastery picks and these could be a little lower and recharge on a short rest. That way, for example, you could use it before the boss fight and rest before the finale to use it again. Suggested text change: Heroic Surge During your turn, you can take one additional Battle Mastery pick. Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again. At 8th level perhaps this could be increased to two additional Battle Mastery picks.
That might be a good way to prevent the option from going completely bananas and grinding the game to a halt. I’d like to maintain the flexibility of Heroic Surge, though. I’ve seen it used in non-combat situations to grab a scoundrel who was trying to flee, or save folks from a burning building. I do agree that it interacts with Battle Mastery in a pontentially messy manner.
Marcus Jansson:
I'm in love with the concept of having an increasing collection of maneuvers that you can choose between every round. I must ask though, since it's not included in this revision: What was the thinking behind getting rid of the combat maneuver that gave additional reactions? Also, did you scrap the auto-hit Opportunity Attack?
I am looking at removing reactions as a typical option for most characters, instead restricting it at a baseline to the rogue/thief’s movement or hide ability. However, I want to create a tanky fighter subclass that deals much more in control, reactions, and so on, rather than as a core option.
On another note I agree with Andy that Superior Battle Mastery increasing your options from 2 to 4 sounds pretty scary, especially considering Heroic Surge. Would it perhaps be better to let the new cap be 3 for a more even progression, and instead let a later level increase it to 4? (and perhaps even further way down the line?)
Aiming for 3 might be a better way to keep things snappy, plus I can cap it there by introducing a general purpose attack buff that removes the need for a 4th bite of the apple.
Andy Shockney:
Battle Mastery, Defensive Bulwark, and Crowd Control are fantastic. I really like how this sets up the fighter to be more versatile (particularly in melee) and accomplishes things players have asked for in games. One thing I’m concerned about is the 9th level fighter getting four uses of Superior Battle Mastery where they can attack four (or five, or six) times in a turn plus take a heroic surge to do it again? On my.
Seeing multiple comments on four picks and potentially eight tells me that I’m probably pushing against my design goal of a snappy, faster playing version of D&D that still retains deeper character options. I think tinkering with the extra action’s specific, along with limiting the fighter to three picks, is a good idea. We’ll see how revision three shapes up!
Comments
Matt W.
I play with fighters who already do that. They tend to roll 4 d20 at once. Resolve the actions and damage in one roll of d6s and then repeat. It takes 30 seconds. Either the fighter hit them or they didn't. I've even seen it mixed with haste and elven accuracy in one all out attack. It can deal a lot of damage, but not more than spells, and doesn't slow the game down, especially once per long rest. It creates those mythic hero moments of Achilles being in the zone.
Matt W.
Not to sow discontent, but I absolutely love the idea of a fighter at or near "max" level getting 8 attacks in one turn once per day.
Swiss Calavera
I love this format for answering questions, it makes things a lot easier to read through.
